Care Before You Cure with Mark Gillilan

Michael Dargie (00:01.166) All right, welcome to the Rebel Rebel. I'm your host, Michael Dargie and somewhere around the world for me. And I am going to redo this because I didn't ask if it's Gillian or Gillian Gillian. How do I pronounce your last name? Mark (00:14.677) Gilliland. Michael Dargie (00:16.28) Gillilan thank you. I was just like, I know I had that on my list to ask and I'm just like, yeah, totally flamed out. That's so funny. Gilliland, Gillilan. Mark (00:21.481) Yeah, it's a pain in the ass. Mark (00:26.751) Gelolan, Michael Dargie (00:28.014) Gillilan, all right, good, crazy. All right, welcome to the Rebel Rebel. I'm your host, Michael Dargi, and somewhere around the world, we're gonna find out where, please welcome to the show, Mark Gilliland. Mark, how the hell are you? Mark (00:40.755) I'm doing great, excited to be here, so thanks for having me. Michael Dargie (00:43.986) I'm so excited that you're here. Just to give people some context and some shape to this whole story we're about to unfold. Mark, what is it that you do in the world? I mean, you do a lot of stuff, but like, what is what is the thing that Mark is known for? Mark (00:57.109) I do a lot of stuff at the time. Right now what I'm known for is I'm the founder of Kyoto Botanicals, botanical wellness company. So we, awesome. So we, so I launched it originally in 2000, focusing on hemp derived CBD products, THC free. So broad spectrum hemp. So the wellness not. Michael Dargie (01:06.828) Yes. Big fan. Mark (01:23.219) the psychoactive effect of the cannabis plant. So purely focused on that and named it Kyoto Botanicals deliberately, because I always wanted to expand beyond just one plant, because there's so many, so many plants out there that are amazing for us. So recently as of about two months ago now expanded finally after six years into functional mushrooms too. So that's kind of, that's kind of where I am right now and what I'm doing. So. Michael Dargie (01:50.766) Amazing. I'm going to get this wrong because I'm not an expert in botanical anything other than I know how to smell a flower. But I have heard that different plants have different terpenes. And terpenes is something I equated to cannabis specifically, but other plants have these as well. Is that right? Mark (02:10.195) Yep. That is right. Like wine. So wine is a big one. So terpenes are what give wine kind of the, the really like full bodied flavor and texture. so yeah, pepper plant. So the pepper family all has a ton of terpenes. Yeah, it's a pretty con. So it's w so I was a biologist in a former life, but I was a wildlife biologist, not a botanist. So my Michael Dargie (02:17.131) Wow. Michael Dargie (02:38.7) Okay. Mark (02:39.221) My scientific botany is not as strong as my animal botany or my animal botany, my animal biology, but terpenes are basically like the defense mechanism for the plant. So what they use to keep animals, bugs, that sort of thing from munch and away at them. they're a defense mechanism, chemical defense mechanism. But for us, Michael Dargie (02:45.368) Yeah. Hahaha Michael Dargie (02:55.992) Okay. Michael Dargie (03:04.76) Wild. Yeah. Mark (03:09.151) for a lot of the different terpenes and there are tons of different terpenes that are actually beneficial. So from a health and wellness perspective. Michael Dargie (03:14.05) Yeah. did you always want to be this way? And I mean, I know you mentioned that you're like animal biology, not necessarily botanical. But I mean, when you're a young guy, here's here's Mark, seven year old Mark will just say you're riding your bike. got some hockey cards in the spokes. I don't know if you have those. Mark (03:28.927) Yeah. Mark (03:32.277) I grew up in Dallas, so they definitely weren't hockey cards. There you go. Michael Dargie (03:36.718) Okay, baseball cards probably. Okay. Yeah, I mean, did you ever imagine that this is what you would be doing? Mark (03:45.745) I know, as long as like biology, definitely oddly enough. since as long as I can remember, that's pretty much what I did. So I would ride my bike out into the woods and find a creek and literally wander around in the creek from sunup till sundown, turning over rocks and catching things and all that stuff. So, you know, been outside in nature was always what I wanted to do. So biology in college and for years after college was pretty much just a natural progression. and then. Michael Dargie (04:02.702) Yeah. Mark (04:15.039) There were a lot of stops between there and here to get me where I am today. yeah, so dealing with nature, just whether it's a job that had me out in nature all day or what I'm doing now, or just trying to get people to access the wellness benefits of nature and just live more naturally. It's kind of been what I've been doing for most of my life since I was a wee kid running around in the woods all day. Michael Dargie (04:19.598) Yeah. Michael Dargie (04:42.903) What is the coolest thing you ever caught or saw when you're out, you know, in the woods? Mark (04:47.285) There's a lot. I think my, probably my answer to that on my dumbest moment out there was I mentioned I grew up in Dallas, so we had water moccasins, cottonmouths. I didn't know any better. I picked one up one time, a baby one, swimming in, that was swimming in the creek. I always caught snakes. I didn't think twice about it and it bit me. Michael Dargie (04:51.832) Yeah Michael Dargie (05:09.696) Yeah my god. Michael Dargie (05:16.29) Yeah. Yeah. Mark (05:16.779) they're pretty, they're highly venomous and super aggressive. I was probably, I don't know, 10 or something very stupid and too young to know any better. So I didn't tell anybody. And luckily it was a dry bite. So, nothing, but yeah, it's, it's its fangs right into me. You probably can't see on the video, but I still have the two little fangs scars in my knuckle. So they can either they can go. So the baby ones can go a couple of different ways. can. Michael Dargie (05:37.959) No way! After all these years. Mark (05:45.481) they don't really have much control over their venom yet, so they can either dump everything into you or nothing into you. And thankfully I got the nothing bite. Michael Dargie (05:56.62) my God, that's crazy. Right on. And he didn't tell. Mark (05:57.705) So that was the dumbest and probably the coolest moment. I've been bitten by lot of snakes, but that was the only venomous one. Michael Dargie (06:07.832) bitten by lot of snakes. mean, what do we get like Gartner snakes up here and, you know, bull snakes, which are not venomous whatsoever. But they do bite. They just they gum you. Yeah. No, that's really cool. OK, so I guess the next logical question is what got you, what dragged you kicking and screaming into botanicals? mean, I do hear the, know, you want to help people, you know, be better, feel better. And that certainly is a driving force, but. Mark (06:14.815) Yeah, they do. Michael Dargie (06:36.428) Why, why this? Mark (06:39.241) Yeah. So it actually kind of came out of the blue. wasn't something I was trying to do. Cannabis specifically and botanical wellness more generally wasn't kind of where I was in my career. I was in consumer packaged goods for years doing brand management and marketing. So, you know, loved that. And then an old boss of mine recruited me to Charlotte's web. If you're familiar with them, they kind of created the whole CBD category back in. Michael Dargie (06:56.654) Okay. Mark (07:08.309) what, 2016, 2014, 2015 around then, with Charlotte Figi and all the original like cannabis CBD patients back in the beginning. And literally, so I've never been a cannabis guy, not a big THC fan at all. I wasn't like, oh my God, I have a chance to work in cannabis. This is awesome. was actually, I actually had serious reservations about it and it took me a long time to decide to make the jump. Michael Dargie (07:17.25) Yeah. Michael Dargie (07:30.786) Ha ha ha ha! Michael Dargie (07:37.09) Yeah. Mark (07:38.207) Cause like, think a lot of people, had a negative perception of weed and didn't even know about hemp and CBD and all that stuff. So I spent a lot of time thinking about it and then decided to accept it. And literally from day one, week one there, was in love and I was done and I was doing this forever. So I met the original families. I met Charlotte Figi and just was blown away by kind of the... Michael Dargie (07:45.027) Sure. Mark (08:06.121) the mischaracterization of the plant and what it could do. you know, I was, I was one of those people that was like, sure, the medicinal qualities of, of weed, whatever. But then I got to see it firsthand and how it changed these people's lives. And it was just, it was eye-opening. And I just knew I wanted to dedicate myself to educating people with growing awareness and acceptance for it. And that it, it, it truly is. Michael Dargie (08:14.126) Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Mark (08:33.585) an incredible plant and it's one of many out there that we just haven't even started to scratch the surface of kind of what we're missing from a wellness perspective. Michael Dargie (08:44.974) Well, and I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot or anything. So you can sidestep this one if you want, but do you feel this is partly due to the pharmacy culture that we see in North American culture that, you know, take a pill in your feel better? Like, you know what I mean? Mark (08:57.205) Hmm Mark (09:03.381) Yeah. So the, the treating versus the, the, the treating versus the kind of preventative, just more general wellness. Absolutely. So it comes down to a lot of things, you know, I mean, it was decades since what the sixties it's been decades of, of making weed evil. It's been, it's been a deliberate effort. And then, yeah, I think you're spot on too. It's there's such a focus on. Michael Dargie (09:06.989) Yeah. Michael Dargie (09:11.394) Yeah. Michael Dargie (09:24.6) Yeah. Yup. Mark (09:32.037) on treating rather than just baseline maintenance in wellness. And I think that's starting to change now. I think people are starting to get a lot more aware of their day-to-day wellness and the choices they're making on a daily basis that can help just support their wellbeing and balance. So hopefully we're starting to kind of change that or that people are starting to focus on caring for themselves rather than. curing themselves down the road, so. Michael Dargie (10:01.646) Nice I Love that. What is it? What's the thing that you've learned that I don't know maybe shocked you in running your own business like this Okay, the thousand-yard stair saw it Mark (10:10.933) Ha Mark (10:15.573) Yeah, we're definitely going to run over 30 minutes. So there's a lot. I think the one thing, I don't know, maybe I was naive to it. I didn't read the right books, but even like now that I have the perspective of being years into it and looking, looking back, and maybe it's one of those things that it's like, you know, when you're in high school and you have the girlfriend that Michael Dargie (10:21.4) Yeah. Mark (10:44.851) nobody likes, but it's up to you to kind of discover it on your own. Nobody can tell you is the highs and lows of it across all aspects of the business, right? So there's no high higher than a successful, whatever you do, whether it's a big day of sales or something you just learned or taught yourself that you executed and you can see the results in the data and. Michael Dargie (10:50.093) Yeah. Mark (11:11.707) And then the lows are like no other lows in life, just the terror and the fear and the anxiety and the up all night. And, you know, if you have a quiet period or you do something and it doesn't work and you're not seeing the results, just that feeling of like, can hit rock bottom, rock bottom, like I'm a failure. I've just wasted all this time. What am I doing? Like really fast. And you can transition between the two really fast. And I don't, I wasn't prepared for that. Michael Dargie (11:20.642) Yeah. Michael Dargie (11:33.944) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mark (11:41.363) I didn't know about that. And I think that's, that's something anybody that's looking to start a business on their own. think people talk about like how hard it is a lot and how low you can feel and how lonely you can feel at times. But there is the flip side of that, the highs you feel and like the confidence you can get in a moment when things go well, it's, it's just the crazy roller coaster. Michael Dargie (12:03.042) Yeah. How do, and I guess what have you learned along the way to sort of help you mitigate that? like, do you have a group of people that you hang out with or can talk to about it? Or is it just intestinal fortitude and you just know that it's going to go back up again? The lower it goes, the higher it'll go back up. Mark (12:19.093) Uh, hopefully, um, so kind of similar to my story at the beginning, just that I've always kind of been out in nature and stuff. get outside. That's kind of how I, that's kind of how I, I modulate and regulate, uh, my internal systems in my brain. try to do that as much as possible, even if it's just so, you know, take the dog for a walk, go for a run, go for a hike, even if it's just like sit outside in the sun for three minutes, that helps kind of reset everything too. So just being able to. Michael Dargie (12:47.341) Yeah. Mark (12:49.813) Being able to kind of identify when you're sliding too far up or down and having that kind of willpower to be like, okay, walk away for 15 minutes. This is the perfect time to go walk the dog around the block. Michael Dargie (13:04.162) Right. Yeah, nice. What do you do just for you? mean, besides going out, like what's what's a guilty pleasure for Mark to fill the bucket besides you know the sitting outside and or is that it I mean that can be it too yeah okay are you a good golfer Mark (13:19.317) That's pretty much it. mean, golf, golf is a big one. So, I mean, not on scale of good golfers, but yeah, I like to play. I can get around a golf course. So that's probably my guilty pleasure just cause it's it's such a time commitment. Michael Dargie (13:31.726) Okay, good. Michael Dargie (13:36.088) Alright. Michael Dargie (13:41.26) Nice. Michael Dargie (13:45.774) It really is, it? Yeah. Mark (13:48.399) That's the one thing I do where I'm like, God, should I really be doing this right now? This is ours. We're talking about, so I guess I'm pretty boring in that respect. I don't have anything crazy. Michael Dargie (13:53.215) Yeah. Michael Dargie (14:01.104) Yeah. Well, OK, so talking about crazy, what's what's maybe something that you haven't done yet that you plan on doing before you shuffle off this mortal coil? Like are you a scuba diver? Do you want to scuba dive, skydive? Do want to climb the Alps like any of that stuff? Mark (14:18.332) Um, you know what, would skydive, but I wouldn't, I have no desire to bungee jump. So my, my son and I recently got into climbing, um, like two years ago, only indoor. We've done a little bit of outdoor. We're actually going to Moab next week, um, to go do some outdoor bouldering. I would love, and I'm a million miles away from being able to do this, but I would love to, to do actual outdoor, like full like lead climbing on a wall of rock. Michael Dargie (14:26.648) Okay. Michael Dargie (14:34.051) Wow. Mark (14:48.085) but that's, who knows if that'll happen. That's a whole, we do it, we do it all indoors, so all super safe and stuff like that. Doing it outdoor is a completely different level. I would love to do it, but the level of knowledge and experience I would need to gain to be confident doing that, especially with my kid is sort of crazy to think about, but that would be awesome. But you know, we're going slow. We've only been doing it two years and we've just started doing a little bit outdoor bouldering and stuff. So maybe, maybe someday. Michael Dargie (14:48.288) Wow. Michael Dargie (14:55.757) Yeah. Michael Dargie (15:16.921) Yeah, nice. That's great. A friend of mine that does glacier climbing, which I think is just in. Yeah, absolutely terrifying. He's like, do you want to go on? Like, no, no. Mark (15:21.842) awesome. That's terrifying. Ice climbing is another world entirely. Michael Dargie (15:31.735) Yeah, forget it. Never. I don't like the cold as it is, let alone climbing, climbing cold. Mark (15:37.141) Well, that ice is so much more dangerous. Rock is pretty solid. Ice is not. Michael Dargie (15:43.599) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's in the name. OK, so I don't know. Let's talk about like weird, weird ways to transport yourself from one place to another. Are you like a do you like flying? Have you ever flown an airplane? Have you like do you like driving motorcycles, bicycles, unicycle? Like I'm just curious how you get from point A to point B. Is it just bipedal? Mark (16:06.677) walk a lot. Yeah. Fly. If we got to go anywhere else, I like, do love road trips, especially with my kids now. they enjoy it too. And it's, it's fun. So we do enjoy road trips. no, never flown, never flown a plane. Don't really have a desire to use to do. So back in my biology days, I used to do helicopter surveys quite a bit. so helicopters are. Michael Dargie (16:30.94) okay. Mark (16:34.805) Helicopters are where it's at. Helicopters are so much fun. If you haven't been on a helicopter before, do it and find a way to do it privately. think that's why I love it so much. wasn't through like a helicopter tour or a charter. was always for like a project I was running where I was in charge of hiring helicopter pilot. So was always a private hire. So the helicopter pilots are much... Michael Dargie (16:36.719) Amazing. that's so good. Michael Dargie (16:44.43) Yeah. Mark (17:02.791) more, much more fun to fly with when they're not part of a charter. Michael Dargie (17:07.199) Yeah, I can imagine. my god. Oh, so cool. What are you? I mean, you talk about your kids. What's your what's your favorite place to take the kids? Mark (17:18.933) definitely camping. So we've been doing that. I mean, since they were babies, like we would have pack and plays in the tent and stuff. So we've just been doing that constantly. Like I said, that's pretty much been my life is being outdoors. and it's just, I love it so much. It's by far my favorite place with them. We get to just, there's no agenda. There's no, nothing to do. There's no distractions. You're just kind of. Michael Dargie (17:23.067) Nice. Michael Dargie (17:34.063) Yeah. Mark (17:46.491) out there just talking or not talking, sitting quietly, exploring, hiking, fishing. So it's just, it's pretty magical. We get more, I think we get more connection in those like two or three days that we're doing that. And we'll do it a few times over the summer than we did in the whole year, just living our busy lives and stuff. So. Michael Dargie (17:51.011) Yeah. Michael Dargie (18:08.611) Yeah, those are great moments. Let's say, let me just take you out to an experience for a moment. You're out there in your favorite camping spot. And as it happens, Mark, you're there alone for no other reason than you just decided to decompress and, you know, you're going to refresh yourself over a weekend and you've got your camp set up. You've got a fire crackling. I'm going to give you a mist. Mark (18:36.33) Love it. Michael Dargie (18:38.295) Like there's some, you know what I mean? Like, and you can smell the ferns. And when you walk to go get that next piece of wood, your foot sort of gives way on the springiness of the forest floor. There's a creek that just runs behind it. You can hear it babbling. And you're sitting there thinking to yourself as you put another log on the fire, I just wish the world knew this one thing. What is the one thing that you wish the world Mark (18:40.852) Yeah. Mark (19:06.729) Wow, that is a deep question. was not prepared for that. Michael Dargie (19:09.049) I'm Hahaha! Mark (19:13.973) Mark (19:18.463) Gosh, something, so I'll just answer it, just what pops into my head. It's something I try, I've been active over the last year or two with myself. It's something I'm trying to teach my kids is I think we can all have a little room for a little more grace with ourselves and with other people. I've been bad about it most of my life. I'm pretty sarcastic, I'm pretty. Michael Dargie (19:22.319) Yeah. Mark (19:47.189) distant, not, you know, I think a lot of people are. And that goes internally and externally. just trying to, I just, I guess I just wish people could have a, definitely for themselves. Like, and I think probably having my kids, they've got a almost 15 year old and almost 12 year old now. And it's hard watching them like be really hard on themselves, even though they're doing really well in life better than I ever did. Michael Dargie (20:11.215) Mmm. Mark (20:14.385) And so it's kind of like mirroring back onto me and like, have a little grace with yourself. Like be patient with yourself. Celebrate the things that you're doing well. And that's something that I'm trying to be better about as well. so yeah, that's, that's what popped in my head. I was probably not an answer to your question, but yeah. Michael Dargie (20:14.424) Yeah. Michael Dargie (20:33.721) That's perfect answer to the question. Are you kidding me? There is no wrong answer to that question. Yeah, no, that's that's fantastic. And I can. Yeah, I can feel the fire and the wisdom right now. And I think that we should all take that and sit with it for a little bit, because I think we all need that. That's awesome. Do you cook at all? Mark (20:58.161) Yes. Michael Dargie (20:59.932) What's your what's your dish? What are you known for? Mark (21:01.031) I am the person that cooks in my house, so I cook all the dinners. Michael Dargie (21:05.537) Okay, what's your favorite thing to cook? Mark (21:08.989) My favorite thing to cook, I love making bread. So all kinds, like I make tortillas, make like a white loaf, I make pita, naan. So all kinds of bread. I did my first sourdough a couple weeks ago. I don't know if I ever do that again, because that is a labor of love. It was delicious, but goodness me, I didn't. Michael Dargie (21:13.793) Okay. Michael Dargie (21:28.249) Congratulations. Did you keep some starter for yourself? No, okay. Mark (21:38.407) I'm good, maybe next year I'll get into that. Doing it once was enough. I know my daughter loves bread and she was like, you need to make that every day. And I was like, that's not gonna happen. So I like, it's gotten harder as life's gotten busier and everybody's getting older and has a lot more activities. But I think I was actually, before we came on this on a dog walk, was thinking that I'm gonna do it on Sunday. Like I like just to. Michael Dargie (21:49.347) Yeah, that's a lot. Mark (22:06.069) It doesn't matter what I cook. like a full like kind of cook day is, is really nice. Not where you're not where I'm like over the stove for eight hours, like on Thanksgiving or something where you can like walk away and stuff will be like on a slow simmer. So I was thinking on Sunday of making maybe doing like a bunch of different Indian food. Um, so things like that's, that's what I really love. Um, is stuff like that where you're making like multiple. Michael Dargie (22:15.631) Sure. Michael Dargie (22:24.239) Thanks. Mark (22:33.001) dishes and stuff and kind of working on it all day and trying new things, failing. I fail a lot, I fail a lot cooking. Michael Dargie (22:34.447) Yeah. Michael Dargie (22:38.339) Love it. Mark (22:43.669) I forget what I did the other day that I just absolutely ruined something the first time I tried to make it. I was like, huh, you'll learn. Next time I won't make that mistake. What was that? Anyway. Michael Dargie (22:43.983) That's it. Michael Dargie (22:54.627) Yeah, baking, baking is like that for me because it's such a chemical process. It's everything needs to be measured just so if you put me in a kitchen for, you know, making dinner like, I don't know, something like a bolognese sauce, like I'm, I'm the, I'm a monster. It will never be the same way twice, but it'll be delicious. yeah. One of the things I love doing is go. I love going shopping at the market. Mark (23:11.401) Right. Michael Dargie (23:18.103) you know, to go buy that fresh stuff and then bring it back and start making it and, you know, let it simmer and stuff throughout the day is such a nice feeling. Do you like melt your face off Vindaloo? is that like are you are you that kind of Indian? Mark (23:25.489) It really is. It's very relaxing. Mark (23:33.301) It's funny, I was just thinking how good a lamb vindaloo sounded today. Yeah, I won't make it that way because nobody else in my house would touch it. But if I go out to India and I'll get that, I don't not melt your face off, but definitely in your face, he got lamb vindaloo. was so good. Michael Dargie (23:40.257) You Michael Dargie (23:46.959) Okay. Michael Dargie (23:55.735) Yeah, like, have you ever gone to like an Indian place and been like, don't white it down for me, like, give me the real deal. Mark (24:01.555) No, I'm not that crazy. Michael Dargie (24:04.013) Hmm. Fair enough. I like I like a little bit of pain with my with my meal. like I like eating it the way that they intended it to be eaten like there used to be a really cool Indian place by us. And I knew it was the right place because I walked in. It's fairly new. And I was the only white person in there. And I'm like, OK, this is going to be amazing Indian food because. Mark (24:08.464) Are you that guy? Mark (24:18.067) Yeah. Michael Dargie (24:33.743) You know, I'm Scottish and we are not known for our spice tolerance. Yeah. Complicated for sure. Oh, man. OK, so you're a busy guy. And I guess one of questions I love to ask is, you know, do you have any books on your shelf that you recommend, like either something just for a guilty pleasure or something that has changed or shaped how you approach business or life? Mark (24:38.781) No. Complicated palette is not... Mark (25:02.293) Yeah, absolutely. I read and I am gonna, I'm gonna totally blank on the name of it. There's a book about how I recently read it like a couple months ago and I apologize that I can't think of the name of Michael Dargie (25:18.521) That's great. We'll track it down and then we'll put it in the show notes. So don't even worry about it. Yeah, just tell us what it's about. Mark (25:21.085) perfect. So it's about, it's about the way that animals sense the world differently than humans and differently than each other. so like, you know, just for an example, like even, even just like heat and cold, like different animals have sent heat and cold differently. like, you know, you thinking your dog is cold today when you're cold or not, because their temperature ranges are different and the way they sense it is different. And it's just all like how animals. different animals see the world, how different animals hear things, know, some animals pick up, they see an ultraviolet, like in a way that we can't even comprehend what the world looks like. God, it's driving me crazy what that's called. And that was, I really enjoyed that book, because it just kind of getting back to the grace thing and having patience and stuff, it just teaches you that you can get kind of. Michael Dargie (25:55.991) amazing. Mark (26:17.609) You can get kind of myopic in how you're perceiving the world and like the way you think the world is actually most of the animal world doesn't see the world that way. And it's just kind of humbling and, and helpful in that context. Michael Dargie (26:20.889) Yeah. Michael Dargie (26:32.089) Was it by Ed Young, An Immense World, that one? yes. In the show notes. Amazing. Yes. OK, very cool. Yeah, it's about, no, but it's on my list of books to read. There's something about this sensory bubble that he talks about. Yeah, OK. Fascinating. Awesome. Mark (26:34.453) Yes. Yes. You got it. Thank you. Sanchika, have you read it? Mark (26:49.512) It's so good. Yeah. Mark (26:55.785) Great book, great book. Good job. Thanks for bailing me out there. Michael Dargie (26:59.469) Hey, man, I got you. Amazing. OK, so there's these people in the world, Mark, and we call them rebels in waiting. And these are the people who are about to do a thing or they've done a thing. And I'm just thinking about back in your journey, you're working with this company that was at the forefront of this world that you're now in. But then you're thinking about going out on your own. And there must have been a point where you stepped off a ledge or you were nervous about maybe taking that step. you know, I try to, you know, frame it this way that you were at that point a rebel in waiting. Maybe you're a rebel in doing, but you know, what advice would you give? Yeah. What advice would you give to these people who are, you know, about to or in the middle of? Mark (27:38.825) I am trying to be. Mark (27:48.245) Yeah, so I think something that took me too long to do in this current venture that I had an inkling or a nagging feeling in the back of your brain, that little itch that I needed to do was just... I worked, like I mentioned, I worked in consumer packaged goods marketing, brand management. I worked for Nestle, like very rigid, very structured. This is how you do marketing. This is how you take products to market. This is how you talk to consumers, you know, your MBA marketing playbook. And so when I launched Kyoto Botanicals, I kind of started that way for too long, for years, honestly. And I had this nagging feeling, but I, Michael Dargie (28:11.854) Yeah. Michael Dargie (28:18.446) Yeah. Michael Dargie (28:33.043) Okay. Mark (28:37.493) kind suppressed it for a long time that kind of my differentiator in the category was me and how I felt about it and what I knew about it and my unique voice and that sort of thing. But I kind of suppressed it for a long time, unfortunately. then a few months ago actually made the decision that I'm kind of done with that. Like I can keep being a faceless cookie cutter CBD company, or I can Michael Dargie (28:45.048) Yes. Michael Dargie (28:49.679) Mm-hmm. Mark (29:07.251) Be me and show the world why I wanted to be a CBD company and launch Kyoto botanical. So I started kind of putting my name everywhere and my voice everywhere and started filming YouTube videos of just me talking to the camera like this, writing all the blog posts and. know, designing like I just redesigned my homepage, literally launched it a week ago and I didn't like go through iterations and you know, how is this going to impact this? Michael Dargie (29:15.694) love it. Mark (29:36.597) this customer group and this segment of people, was just like, how would I like, what do I, what do I want people's journey to be when they interact with Kyoto Vaginicals and me and how do want them to see it? Um, so that's got kind of rambly there, but I think my big advice would be like, don't, don't hide yourself. Um, that's the reason why what you're doing is important. That's why it matters to you. And that's eventually why it will matter to the world. So. Michael Dargie (29:38.786) It is. Michael Dargie (29:57.241) planet. Mark (30:06.837) Take that, whatever's inside you that made you want to do it in the first place or want to do it in the future and have that be kind of the North Star of it and don't hide from it. That's what's going to get the right people coming to it, whether it's your product, your company, your service, your book, in your case, whatever it is, right? You may not get a hundred million people. Michael Dargie (30:26.999) Hahaha. Mark (30:33.875) but you'll get a hundred thousand of the right people. So that's kinda. Michael Dargie (30:37.867) Love that. That is such love that advice. Yeah, I preach that on the regular that your story is the most important part of your brand. Like that's just it's so critical. Even if as you move away from founders story that gets left behind, the DNA of it gets left behind to build the other stuff. Mark (30:57.183) Yeah, absolutely. It's terrifying. I'm not going to sugar coat that. I said, I wanted to do it for years. I was too scared to do it. And then I would build up to do it. then I didn't do it because I got cold feet at the last second. And then eventually I was just like, you know what? What's the worst that happens? Nobody cares. I'm not a famous person. I'm not going to get millions of people like. Michael Dargie (31:05.795) Yeah. Michael Dargie (31:14.371) Yeah. Michael Dargie (31:20.473) sure. Mark (31:24.885) trashing me online, it's not gonna happen. And then I started by just, I just turned on the camera and filmed a YouTube video one day and it was, actually, I accidentally watched it yesterday and it is so bad. Michael Dargie (31:27.385) Sure. Michael Dargie (31:39.151) I love it. That's awesome. I have a friend who's doing these on camera things and they struggle with it. And I think that like I would too. Like I'm not that guy. So I'm just I applaud you on that journey to like just go for it. Mark (31:55.285) I'm not either. I'm super introverted. but like, literally, I, so I, I did that first one. I was, I forced myself to do 30 days. I don't think I got exactly 30 days in a row of doing it every day. And literally by it took, it took, think like five, maybe six days until it just, I didn't care anymore. Like it just became part of my daily routine. I wasn't like nervous about doing it. And then now I just. Michael Dargie (31:59.183) You Michael Dargie (32:09.839) That's awesome. Michael Dargie (32:19.212) Amazing. Mark (32:23.987) I just turned the camera on and start talking about what I want to talk about that day. And it's just, it's kind of part of it is, and that was, it's, you just got to do it. This, you like, guess, building on that, you're the biggest impediment to that success, right? Like, and it's not just being scared of being rejected or be, or failure or what are my family and friends going to think? Michael Dargie (32:28.365) I love it. Michael Dargie (32:41.593) Yeah. Mark (32:50.025) but that's the opposite fear of it that I think is just as strong, similar to the highs and lows of being a founder. There's a fear of like, that is even deeper down in your soul of like, what if it's successful? Like, what if people actually like what I'm doing and like me? And that's almost scarier for us to manage mentally. Michael Dargie (32:55.151) Yeah. Michael Dargie (33:06.105) Yeah. You Yes, absolutely. Mark (33:16.009) then what if nobody cares? What if everybody cares? my God. Michael Dargie (33:18.509) Yeah, yeah, and then you get to the point where, you know, the million of people, you know, you know, go after you for a certain thing. Well, you are you know, flip it to that's a good thing that you know what I mean? Like, it's like, I think we go through these bounces, I look at these famous people that do get in trouble, but it ends up being okay. In the end, like anyway, Mark, where can people find out more about you and Kyoto? Name all the places where people can connect with you. Mark (33:31.754) Yeah. Mark (33:47.445) So the main place is just kyotabotanicals.com. So K-Y-O-T-O like the city in Japan. Like I mentioned, YouTube, I do a lot of YouTube videos. kind of my big, when I started this company and for the first few years, I did a lot of local markets. So farmers markets, street vendor fairs, that sort of thing. That's where I really love and felt like I could engage with people and really convert people. Michael Dargie (34:14.531) Nice. Mark (34:15.091) So my thing now is how do I do that at scale? How do I take my one-on-one education and do it at scale? And so obviously our blog on Kyoto Botanicals.com, but YouTube, I try to do that and just kind of talk to people in the way I talk to them at markets and try to overcome their like biggest hurdles. So YouTube at Kyoto Botanicals is a big one. So those are the two, those are the two main ones. Yeah, try to focus on that now. Michael Dargie (34:30.18) Yeah. Michael Dargie (34:39.117) Love it. Yeah, don't need more than that. That's amazing. Mark, thank you so much for spending time with us today. This has been awesome. Mark (34:46.773) It has been great. Thanks so much, Michael. Appreciate it. It was a great talk. Michael Dargie (34:52.803) Bam, just like that music rises just like that. There's like, yeah, angels singing. It's great. Mark (34:54.516) We're out. Love it. Mark (35:00.565) The clouds part. Michael Dargie (35:03.241) Mm. Yeah, that was was awesome. That was perfect. That was so good. You're such a natural. Mark (35:07.209) Thank you, that was fun. Well, it's because I've been forcing myself to be on YouTube for the last three months. Michael Dargie (35:13.743) Good for you. I'm to go subscribe to your channel right now. That's wicked. Mark (35:18.485) Oh, I love that. I did my, I did my, had my big, I mean, I'm tiny and I'm in such a tiny niche, but like I had my, I had my most successful short yesterday last night. So I was like, Hey, look at them. Yeah. I got like 2000 views in the first couple hours. I was like, wow, that's pretty crazy. Michael Dargie (35:26.425) Yeah. Michael Dargie (35:30.627) Congratulations, that's awesome. Michael Dargie (35:35.247) Dude, that's amazing. That is so great. my God. was dead as you're talking. Mark (35:40.117) And I'm not like a, oh sorry, go ahead. No, just, I'm not like a, I'm not like a YouTube star, right? I'm not ever gonna get a million views, right? I'm gonna try to get, you know, you get a couple thousand people every few days. I mean, that's reaching people. That's all I'm trying to do is reach people, so. Michael Dargie (35:43.279) No, go ahead. Michael Dargie (35:48.313) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. Thousand is amazing. Michael Dargie (36:00.247) Yeah, that's awesome. There's a friend of mine that has a soap company called McDuff's. And I was just thinking as you were talking that I should talk to him about, you know, doing that sort of thing, because he also does markets and he loves meeting people and talking about, know, this stuff. And I'm just like, my God, you're just like Sean, like he would he should totally maybe take a page out of your book. And yeah, that's cool. Mark (36:20.671) He should. Mark (36:24.457) He should. It's the only way to... I think, I shouldn't say it's the only way, I think it's the only way to like have a chance as a small business these days, right? Like what can you do that's unique? What can you do that AI can't just rip off tomorrow? It's put your face on camera. Michael Dargie (36:39.469) Yeah, well, I mean. Michael Dargie (36:44.739) Yeah, and I think you had. Yeah, and you identified the fact that you love meeting people at the market and talking to them. And this is a way that you can get in front of all those people. That's the way that you scale that conversation. And if you're authentic, people will see that across the camera, even if your first one is awful. That's also fine. That's wicked, though, dude, that's so cool. Mark (36:57.394) Exactly. Mark (37:04.329) God, it was so bad. I was like a little, it was like I was a stepford live. It was like I was a robot. It was like I was a robot just reading from a script. It was so bad. Michael Dargie (37:14.367) man. Dude, I love it. That's awesome. Well, thanks again for today. I'll let you know when this comes out. It'll be about a month or so. yeah, we'll send you all the stuff. But this has been great. Mark (37:28.148) Okay, perfect. Mark (37:33.085) A month sounds like you got a backlog, that's a good thing. Michael Dargie (37:36.468) God, do we ever. Yeah, it's a. Yep. It's good. Really, really good. Yeah. Good problems to have. Mark (37:41.695) That's fantastic. Well, good luck. You got, you're starting to work on a new book, right? Didn't you say? Well, good luck with that. Michael Dargie (37:49.059) Yep, pitch jitsu. Thank you. Yeah, I to get that done by July. Mark (37:56.831) That is not far from now. Sorry. Michael Dargie (37:58.581) It is not. Yep, I'm aware. Thanks for that. Awesome. That's good. I'm going to hit stop just so that.